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In this episode of The Atlas Obscura Podcast, listen as MacArthur Genius Grant winner, artist, and experimental geographer Trevor Pagen and host Dylan Thuras discuss documenting government surveillance, AI, and place.

Our podcast is an audio guide to the world’s wondrous, awe-inspiring, strange places. In under 15 minutes, we’ll take you to an incredible site, and along the way you’ll meet some fascinating people and hear their stories. Join us daily, Monday through Thursday, to explore a new wonder with cofounder Dylan Thuras and a neighborhood of Atlas Obscura reporters.

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